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From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

When the country’s peak arts body Creative Australia decided to dump Australia’s representative at the Venice Biennale, it set in motion an existential crisis for the arts.

The artist in question Khaled Sabsabi was removed from the role just days after his appointment, following an article in a News Corp newspaper, a set of opposition questions in the Senate and a phone call from the Arts Minister Tony Burke.

Now, the boss of Creative Australia has faced questions about why he made the decision he did and whether there was ministerial interference.

Today, Chief Political Correspondent for The Saturday Paper Karen Barlow on the controversy at Creative Australia, and what it means for artistic freedom.

It’s Thursday February 27.

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RUBY:

So, Karen, let's begin in the Senate two weeks ago now. There was this very interesting hearing that really set this story in motion. So tell me about it.

KAREN:

Yeah, so this has been a massive controversy for the arts, but it all goes back to this really intense moment in Senate Question Time on the last, we believe to be the last question time before the election. We have the Tasmanian conservative Liberal Senator Claire Chandler.

Audio excerpt — President of the Senate:

“Minister, Senator Chandler.”

Audio excerpt — Claire Chandler:

“Thank you president…”

KAREN:

She's someone who was previously known for campaigning against trans people in women's sport. She's got this arts portfolio, something that she got in the very recent Opposition reshuffle. and she's aiming for a hit and she gets it.

Audio excerpt — Claire Chandler:

“My question is to the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The Australian government-funded organisation Creative Australia has announced that Khaled Sabsabi will be Australia's artistic representative to the Venice Biennale. Mr Sabsabi features the dead Hezbollah terrorist leader Nasrallah in his artworks. With such appalling anti-Semitism in our country, why is the Albanese government allowing a person who highlights a terrorist leader in his artwork to represent Australia on the international stage at the Venice Biennale?”

KAREN:

So, where Senator Chandler got this information was a column was published the day before in The Australian. This appointment had been highlighted, in particular, the past work of Khaled Sabsabi and Penny Wong is blindsided by this question.

Audio excerpt — Penny Wong:

“Senator, I wasn’t aware of this until you asked me. I certainly will get advice and I share your concerns about Hezbollah.”

RUBY:

And Karen, the Venice Biennale, that is an important event. Last year Australia actually won the Gold Lion Award at the Biennale. So being chosen for that role as Australia’s representative is a big moment for any artist, but tell me a bit about Khaled Sabsabi.

Audio excerpt — Khaled Sabsabi:

“My name is Khaled Sabsabi. My practice is made up of many things and it's progressed over...”

KAREN:

He is renowned as being the first person of Islamic faith to win the Blake Prize for religious art. And that was a very big deal at the time. He was born in Lebanon. He came to Australia escaping the civil war in 1978. He is someone who looks into themes around Arab culture, dislocation and migration in his work.

Audio excerpt — Khaled Sabsabi:

“A lot of people almost miss the point of my artwork or the essence of what I'm saying in my artwork. Because my work's been called extremist in the past and all sorts of things. Yeah, my artwork essentially is about humanity and commonality.”

KAREN:

So there's two works that have caused the greatest controversy. The work You is a video installation showing the now assassinated Hezbollah leader with light shining through his face and hands. This is in the collection of the Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney. And then there is the 2006 work Thank You Very Much which shows the awful impact images from 9/11 and it shows the then president George W Bush right at the end saying the phrase “Thank you very much”. And it turns out that the piece Thank You Very Much is the piece that has most concerned the arts minister and it was the work that the head of Creative Australia Adrian Collette was unaware of until it was brought up by Claire Chandler in Senate Question Time.

RUBY:

Okay, so the controversy begins and it's around his previous work not his current work. News Corp runs an article about it. Chandler gets up at question time and starts asking these questions. What happens next?

KAREN:

The wheels moved very quickly.

We have a question that is asked at around 2.35pm in the afternoon.

Immediately after Question Time, the public affairs area of Creative Australia immediately contacting Adrian Collette. This is somehow also being transmitted to the Arts Minister, Tony Burke, in the House. Within an hour, Tony Burke, as soon as he gets out of Question Time, is calling Adrian Collette to find out essentially what the hell. To find out about these artworks that he was not made aware of previously.

In that phone call, Adrian Collette informs the arts minister that the board has already decided to meet to immediately discuss the appointment of them for the Biennale.

Next thing we know, according to Adrian Collette, about 4.30pm in the afternoon, the artist is made aware that the board is being gathered to discuss this urgently.

Six o'clock, the board members gather, apart from one, Larissa Brent, who is unavailable and is away. And then within an hour, it's all over. The decision is made unanimously in a very difficult board meeting. A little bit later, about 9:30pm, a very short statement goes out to inform the world that the appointment is no more and then opens a greater controversy.

RUBY:

Coming up after the break, the phone call between the boss of Creative Australia and the arts minister.

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RUBY:

Karen, you’ve said that Tony Burke, as soon as he gets out of Question Time, calls the head of Creative Australia Adrian Collette. So tell me, how much more do we know about that phone call and what was said?

KAREN:

Yeah. So there's a lot of interest in this phone call that happened straight after Question Time. We don't know the full context and information in that conversation. There is much discussion in the art world that perhaps some undue pressure is put there but Tony Burke says in his interview on 7.30 that when he spoke to Adrian Collette, it was immediately made clear to him that the board had already decided to meet over this that day.

Audio excerpt — Sarah Ferguson:

“Did you give him any instruction or give him any sense of your view of the decision in that conversation?”

Audio excerpt — Tony Burke:

“Yeah, I was very clear with him. I made clear to Adrian Collette, who I've known for more than a decade, I said to him, whatever you decide, I will support you and I will support Creative Australia. I was very clear in that.”

KAREN:

The minister who has only done a little bit of media post this decision has insisted that he's at arm's length and that's what the legislation that sets up Creative Australia insists that there is an arm's length process on decisions between the minister and the body itself. But there's still question marks.

We know that the arts minister is very personally invested in the arts portfolio. He's had that portfolio in the Rudd-Gillard years. He's personally insisted to the prime minister that you keep this portfolio despite the reshuffle last year.

He was brought into home affairs, to essentially shut down the controversies that were continuing prior to him getting the portfolio. I think, when he got arts, much discussion was, well, how does that fit? It's interesting the way that it's turned out that there is this national security bent now to this discussion in the arts.

So this will be something that personally stings him and there is this whole view that in trying to shut down this controversy, it's created a bigger one and that Australia is looking terrible on the international stage.

RUBY:

Can we talk a little more about Creative Australia? Because as you say, it sounds like this board meeting was very tense, very difficult and it's clear that there is a lot of unease within Creative Australia around that decision now. So tell me a bit more about the fallout.

KAREN:

So, immediately after the board meeting, there is a series of resignations. We had a resignation from board member Lindy Lee, who is an artist, a renowned Australian artist, and she expressed how difficult the board meeting was, but she was unable to talk further about it due to confidentiality. There were a number of senior positions in Creative Australia who also felt that they had to go and then we started to see a number of significant people in the arts community complain about what has transpired, but it's been noted to me that it's not really something that the bigger institutions have stood up and said anything about.

This is something that has been left to large figures such as Liz Anne MacGregor, who is a former director of the Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney. She stood up and discussed how chilling this whole event has been for the entire arts community.

People in the arts community say this will mean that going forward, people will have to look at the backgrounds of everyone and every past piece of work, so people may not put themselves forward, for example, or people will be more careful about what they do and express themselves. And Liz Anne MacGregor, she tells me she's getting emails, calls from all over the world asking what Australia is doing considering its reputation for fostering the arts.

RUBY:

And what about the artist? What about Khaled Sabsabi? What has he said about where this has left him?

KAREN:

We've only had a couple of statements from Khaled Sabsabi and Michael Dagostino. They're united as this artistic team. They're asking for privacy while acknowledging thanks for the support from the artistic and wider community for their work. They are deeply disturbed both professionally and personally by this decision. They're deeply shocked.

Going forward also, the question about the future of Creative Australia and Collette, he was asked whether he would resign and he said no, he would not. The chair, Robert Morgan, also was asked whether he would resign and he said no, asked also about an apology for the artists. Well, this is now in the hands of lawyers and publicly, there is no apology from Creative Australia to the artists.

Ultimately it looks like the Biennale pavilion will be empty in 2026.

RUBY:

Karen, thank you so much for your time.

KAREN:

Thank you.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today,

Ukraine and the United States have agreed to the terms of a deal which will see the two countries jointly develop Ukraine’s critical minerals industry.

Ukraine has an estimated $16 trillion dollars worth of the minerals, much of it in Russian occupied territory, where fighting is ongoing.

President Trump has said the deal will compensate for the billions of dollars in US support since the start of the Russia-Ukraine war.

AND

The prime minister has announced an increase in federal funding to help deliver the Melbourne Airport rail link, bringing the Albanese government's total funding commitment to $7 billion dollars.

The project is designed to operate via Sunshine station, where Anthony Albanese says the additional $2 billion will help create a new rail hub.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am and I’ll be back tomorrow, with Pulitzer Prize winning writer Gerladine Brooks talking about Anthony Albanese’s hopes of re-election.

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