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DANIEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James. This is 7am.

Efforts to close the gap between Indigenous Australians and the rest of the community are not on track. They’re actually widening. More Aboriginal children are being taken from their families, more are ending up in prison and suicide rates remain devastatingly high.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says closing the gap is about acknowledging what’s working and what isn’t and has pledged $840 million dollars in new money to remote communities in the Northern Territory.

But Independent Senator Lidia Thorpe believes the widening gap is by design and Close the Gap targets should be scrapped all together.

Today, Senator Thorpe on why she believes the Closing the Gap strategy is a distraction and what real change would look like.

It’s Thursday, February 13.

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DANIEL:

Senator Thorpe, thank you for joining us.

LIDIA:

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Audio excerpt — Deputy President :

“Senator Thorpe.”

Audio excerpt — Lidia Thorpe:

“Thank you acting deputy president. Today's Closing the Gap announcement tops off a year of betrayal. Once again, Labor is refusing to address the urgent issues facing First Peoples and confront their own role in harming our communities. They're refusing to address the suicide epidemic, child removals and incarceration rates, particularly of children.”

DANIEL:

In parliament this week, you said the Closing the Gap numbers reveal a “year of betrayal”. What did you mean by that?

LIDIA:

Well, it's many years of betrayal. I think the fact that Howard came up with the whole idea says it in itself. The same prime minister who sent the Army into communities based on a lie came up with a distraction, another distraction for our people, another opportunity for politicians to have morning teas on a day where they say that they're doing something, where they say that they're going to do better, and nothing ever changes. It's the same old rhetoric and it's very disappointing when we see rates of child removal still escalating, 24,000 of our children have been taken away from their families and there's no end in sight because the number continues to rise. The suicidal rates, I’ve been touched personally by suicides in my own family of young men in particular. There's a sense of hopelessness amongst our people and each year we hear that nothing's getting better and we're going to do better and we're hearing you. However, it's just all talk and no action.

DANIEL:

Only five of the 19 Closing the Gap targets are on track. In your speech you said targets are going backwards intentionally. What did you mean by that?

LIDIA:

Well, there's a real assault on First Peoples in this country and there always has been for over 200 years. There's been many strategies and policies that oppress our people, that deny our rights as First Peoples in this country, and they're genocidal acts. They continue to perpetrate the same state violence. They're putting money into prisons, they're putting money into police. We see the Closing the Gap money that goes to communities, particularly in the Northern Territory, where $200 million is for the cops. The Minister makes these deadly announcements on supporting communities in the Northern Territory, however, she didn't articulate that part of that money was $200 million for the cops. Well, we know what money for cops means. It means more of our children locked up, more of our people locked up, and that money should be going to self-determined solutions within our communities. And they're being ignored.

DANIEL:

When it comes to things like youth justice, the federal government would say that it's a responsibility for the states and territories, but what more could the federal government be doing to intervene in that area?

LIDIA:

They can do lots. They can actually act. They have the power to pull the states and territories into line like they have in, say, the health sector and other areas where they hold states and territories to account. They have the power to do this, they just choose not to do it. They're always hand balling off to the state and territories to not own the issue themselves, which they created, mind you. Governments created this problem. It's not us. We are not the problem, as Aunty Rosalie Kunoth-Monks, bless her, always said, “we are not the problem”. It's these governments that are creating the gap and not listening to our old people. So the federal government can take stronger action. They have the constitutional power to set standards on the states and territories, as I said, like the health area and the disability area and the education sector. And we also need a Human Rights Act. We don't even have a Human Rights Act in this country. I mean, even King Coloniser's country has a Human Rights Act. We don't have one here. I also have a private senator's bill and that is on including the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples into the Human Rights Committee as an instrument that looks at all the legislation coming through and looks for any human rights abuses.

DANIEL:

You said that you're putting a bill to the Senate. What would you like to see written in legislation in parliament right now? Tell us about your bill.

LIDIA:

Well, this bill is to ensure that the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, something that this country has signed up to but ignores it, is an instrument that the Human Rights Committee, who looks at most legislation in this place, is taken into account when it comes to passing legislation. So we want our rights enshrined into the Human Rights Committee to scrutinise the legislation and not have our rights impeded upon.

Now, I tried through another private senator's bill last year to have the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples enshrined in the law of this country. However, Dodson and McCarthy and Jana Stewart of the Labor Party and their colleagues voted it down.

DANIEL:

Coming up after the break: Why the Senator thinks we should scrap Closing the Gap altogether.

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Audio excerpt — Anthony Albanese:

“There is no ethos more fundamentally Australian than the fair go. And Closing the Gap is the fairest go of all. We want First Nations people to have ownership of their futures and a stake in the economy. That is the foundation on which everything else can be built.”

DANIEL:

Lidia, this week the government announced $840 million to reach Close The Gap targets in the NT. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said his government would invest in a range of new measures to help close the gap in remote communities, including delivering cheaper groceries, upskilling of local staff in remote areas, scholarships for Indigenous psychology students. What do you make of those particular measures?

LIDIA:

Well, they should be happening anyway. I mean, really? It's taken you a Closing The Gap speech to get a few crumbs on the table for our people. Yes, they're nice to have, but they are crumbs on the table when it comes to people's lives. Children are being abused in these places of detention. They are being locked up at the rate of, you know, how many kids can we lock up as quickly as we possibly can. So we need real action. We need to stop the incarceration. We need to stop the removals of our children. We need to end this war against our people and stop putting crumbs on the table. We want real action.

DANIEL:

In the Productivity Commission's assessment of Closing the Gap, it found the government has a persistent government-knows-best way of thinking, recommending more control to local community organisations and power-sharing. And the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, is talking about working in partnership with communities and community-controlled organisations. From your perspective, does that show the government grasps the approach you believe that we need?

LIDIA:

No. Talking to peak bodies is one thing, but rolling your sleeves up and getting down to every community, every community's needs are different, and it's about ensuring that those communities are listened to. And I have concerns about peak bodies. Peak bodies don't represent me. Peak bodies are bound by government because they won't even challenge the government on incarceration, on child removal, on this ongoing genocide. So, you know, we need to go beyond the peak bodies, which is easy for government to just go to one body that says that they are representative but I can tell you now, out there amongst our people, they are not happy with peak bodies speaking for us because it's not working and it's not delivering in places where we absolutely need it.

DANIEL:

So if the government doesn't deal with peak bodies, then who does the government deal with and listen to?

LIDIA:

So the way I grew up back in the 70s and 80s, we didn't have peak bodies. I mean, we had the National Aboriginal and Islander Health Organisation, which preceded NACHO, but that had a different philosophy, a more self-determining philosophy. In fact, that's where Pay the Rent came from. And it was about being independent from governments. It was about building the capacity of Aboriginal health services on the ground in communities and not having peak bodies deciding for those local communities, peak bodies competing for funds against those smaller communities that are poor. So we need to break down the hierarchy. It's not how we operate as communities. We need to go out to Lake Tyers. We need to go to Framlingham. We need to go to these communities that are really struggling and don't get a real say at that peak body level. The peak body level is becoming the, you know, the difference between the haves and have-nots. If you're not in the room, so to speak, or at the table, then you don't get a say. We need to decolonise rather than go into this corporatised model, which is part of an assimilation model.

DANIEL:

The Closing the Gap framework has been in place since 2008, which is a long time, and we're not on track. Do you see a future where we're able to get to a place where our life outcomes are equal to the rest of the country?

LIDIA:

I think that we need to get rid of the Closing the Gap targets. I think they're just a distraction. And as I said, you know, they're an opportunity for politicians to have a morning tea. They mean nothing to the people on the ground suffering from inhumane conditions in this country. We need to scrap Closing the Gap. We need to scrap Native Title. Native Title is another distraction. It's another division that goes on amongst our people. And who puts these things in place? It's old white prime ministers, men, who say, this is what's best for you. Howard says, let's come up with this Closing the Gap thing so that we can pretend that we're doing something.

So we need to get rid of those racist regimes that continue to oppress us. And we need to build the capacity of our own people on our own land to self determine their own destiny. We need a human rights bill, and we need the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples actioned in this country.

DANIEL:

Never a dull moment with you, Senator. Thank you so much for your time.

LIDIA:

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

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DANIEL:

Also in the news today,

Football Australia says they will continue to provide support for Sam Kerr moving forward, after the footballer was found not guilty of racially aggravated assault in the UK.

However the body stopped short of restoring Kerr’s position as Matilda’s captain. Meanwhile Kerr’s former team mate and co-captain Kate Gill has spoken out against the trial, calling it a quote “a waste of police and public resources.”

And

Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party will not be on any ballots in the upcoming election. The mining magnate has lost his High Court bid to re-register his party in time for the vote.

Senator Ralph Babet, the only UAP candidate to win at the last election, is still midway through his 6-year-term and not standing for re-election. But any new UAP candidates will not be identified with the party on ballots, come election day.

That’s all for now. 7am will be back tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

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