SAUL:

2515 is a group of suburbs south of Sydney in the postcode 2515, and we wanted to sort of fast forward a community to the future.

Audio excerpt – 2515 promotional video:

“We are home to the first community-led electrification pilot…in Australia. We’re going to help 500 homes in the community electrify…”

RUBY:

In a coastal corner of Australia, scientist Saul Griffith has been quietly working away on a plan to turn 500 households completely off fossil fuels.

SAUL:

We can do this electrification, which will both decarbonize us, it should also lower our cost of energy, and it should be able to be all possible with small changes to the local grid and then small changes to people's households…

Audio excerpt – 2515 promotional video:

“Why would we do that? An electric home uses less energy, it’s cheaper to run, and it’s healthier to live in. And best of all, if we do it together as a community, it’s easier, hopefully a little more fun, and we can show the rest of Australia how we can create our electric future today…”

SAUL:

And so we ran that project idea up the pole at ARENA, Australian Renewable Energy Agency, arguing for the importance of this in terms of national emissions, and in terms of helping households through this energy transition.

Audio excerpt – Chris Bowen:

“The Albanese government, through ARENA, is supporting the Electrify 2515 project with a grant of 5.4 million dollars…”

SAUL:

And so we got enough money to provide a small subsidy to a bunch of houses to electrify their stoves, their water heaters, their space heaters, trying to sort of figure out how to do this cheaper for all of the other communities that’re going to follow, figure out to do it in fair and equitable ways - so that we can have a just and fair transition.

RUBY:

And he hopes that what he achieves there can act as a blueprint for the rest of the country.

But for that to become a reality the federal government - and industry - would need to drastically increase their commitment.

SAUL:

Well, if we were really shooting for a one and a half or two degree climate target, every Australian community would be pretty much fully electrified by early 2040s. And so we know that if we do this, it's going to save the country trillions of dollars. So, you know, as well as wanting to do it for climate reasons, it's just a good idea for the country.

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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media. I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

Today chief scientist at Rewiring Australia Saul Griffith on the electrification already underway – and what both sides of politics are promising for our energy future.

It’s Tuesday, April 22.

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RUBY:

So Saul, zooming out, where would you say that we are at in Australia, right now, in terms of households moving away from energy generated by fossil fuels to living in a clean electricity environment?

SAUL:

We lead the world absolutely in terms of rooftop solar, like 35, 40 per cent of homes now have rooftop solar that probably will go all the way up to 80 per cent because it just keeps getting to be cheaper and better economics. Cars, we’re not going as fast as we could compared to say Norway, where honestly, by the end of 2025, nearly 100 per cent of vehicles will be electric. We are in the middle of the pack on heat pumps for water heating and space heating. At Electric Cooking, we're doing okay, not quite as good as Asia. So I think that we are doing well and we have this structural advantage in our cheap solar, but the long-term savings over running them for 10 or 15 years on much, much cheaper energy is where we save the money. So it's about getting that upfront assistance and that argues for a government's role in helping that.

RUBY:

Let's talk about that a little more. I mean, there is, as you say, this huge uptake in solar. I think it's one in three Australian households that have solar panels now, but it's not the same with batteries. It's 1 in 40 households that have a battery, so in that context, how significant is Anthony Albanese's promise to subsidise home batteries?

SAUL:

A lot of people won't remember it, but it was under a Howard government where Howard first encouraged some rebates for solar and some generous feed in tariffs. That was in the early 2000s. And at that time, solar was more expensive than it was from the grid, but by offering those incentives, it helped build an industry. It helped train the tradies who do the installations. It helped bring the cost of the product down and we're in the same place in 2025 with batteries as we were with solar in say 2010. So almost competitive with the market. So these incentives will help build capacity to install them. It will help the distribution, electricity distribution companies figure out how to absorb them into the grid and it will bring down the cost for every future battery. So by the time this programme has run its course as is the case with solar today, the batteries will make total economic sense. And so it looks like good policy.

RUBY:

And I suppose so we're talking a lot about what individuals and what households can do and the ways in which those options might be cheaper while obviously also coming with the advantage of being better for the environment, but what proportion of emissions in Australia actually come from household use?

SAUL:

So in terms of how significant are household emissions in Australia, I think first it's worth understanding 60 per cent of our emissions are in support of our domestic economy. So that's burning gas in Australia to cook a meal. It's burning petrol in Australia to drive a car, burning coal in Australia to use electricity used in Australia. But about 40 per cent of our emissions is dedicated to things that ultimately we ship overseas as part of our trade. So that's using diesel to mine coal or diesel to extract gas, and then we send that overseas. And so those emissions happen overseas.

So anyway, of the 60 per cent of our emissions, which are domestic, about 42 per cent of those are from the cars in our households and the appliances in our household. And then another 30 per cent of emissions is our cars are used in small business commercially and in our buildings used for small businesses and commercial activity, including schools and churches and surf clubs, they go under the commercial sector. So 70 per cent of our domestic emissions can be addressed with technologies that are available today, solar, batteries, electric vehicles, electric appliances. I'm a strong proponent that we should be doing things that work economically and work for emissions reductions right now, and that's where they are. And if we do that this decade, then we buy ourselves enough time for the remaining pieces of the industrial decarbonization puzzle to come into focus and to become economically viable.

But the reality is, we’re a big export nation. That’s where the very large contribution from industrial emissions happens in Australia, is from the diesel that’s used to pull the coal out of the ground and the natural gas out of the ground and send it off to Asian and European markets. So we need to be, if not first, a top runner in the field in all of these big export industries that use huge amounts of energy. But we're not spending enough money on the research on the new processes, we're not really thinking outside the box. And that's because industry is a, you know, slow moving and heavy hitting lobbyist.

RUBY:

Coming up after the break… What does "global leadership” actually look like when it comes to facing the climate crisis?

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RUBY:

Saul, in terms of sort of political will on any of that, do you see, either Dutton or Albanese's approach as we get closer to this election and the promises that have been made, as I suppose being up to meeting the challenge?

SAUL:

Well, the headline ‘a future made in Australia’ is pretty good. You know, one challenge with Australia is we seem to very much like underwriting the existing market players as opposed to supporting disruptive innovation. So in theory, we should all like ‘a future made in Australia’, but if it's large handouts to the existing industries to go slow, that's not going to be as good as funding the young hungry entrepreneurs who want to completely replace those industries with a better industry. So I'd like to see that happening.

Audio excerpt – Peter Dutton:

“Under the Coalition, energy will become affordable and reliable again.”

Audio excerpt – Party Members:

“Hear hear!”

SAUL:

Dutton really hasn't said anything about industrial policy and in terms of energy policy, nuclear, that is almost certainly gonna be publicly unpopular, isn't gonna get in the ground until 2040, doesn't solve any real problems that the Australian grid has.

Audio excerpt – Peter Dutton:

“We will join the other 19 top economies in the world in adopting proven, zero-emissions nuclear power.”

Audio excerpt – Party Members:

“Hear hear!”

Audio excerpt – Peter Dutton:

“This is one of the most visionary and necessary policies put forward in our country’s history.”

SAUL:

I mean, there's some good work. The Bragg inquiry on the economics of household electrification, which came from Liberals, pointed to the fact that this is good for the country and it's going to save people money. So there's a little bit to celebrate in all teams, but no big industrial vision for the nation from Dutton.

Audio excerpt – Peter Dutton:

“And the only way to drive down power prices quickly is ramp up domestic gas production.”

Audio excerpt – Party Members:

“Hear hear!”

Audio excerpt – Peter Dutton:

“And tonight, I announce our national gas plan.”

SAUL:

But you know what we need is genuine political leadership as well as policy - we haven't really seen leading from the top on climate under this Labor government. Chris Bowen has been good, but the nation would like to hear it from the boss.

Audio excerpt – Chris Bowen:

“33 per cent renewable energy on the day we came to office, 46 per cent on the last quarter of last year. And renewables are set to overtake coal as the largest source of our electricity this year. That’s good progress. But there’s more to do. Much more to do.”

SAUL:

The Independents and Greens are pushing the right things, but all of it needs to go so much faster than any politician is really conceiving of, if we're going to have any hope of keeping the world under two degrees of warming.

RUBY:

In his budget reply speech, Peter Dutton said that he would end Labor's ‘rewiring the nation’ renewable energy focused fund, the $19.5 billion one, in favour of gas, coal and nuclear. So can you just tell me a bit about how that money is currently spent and what would happen if Dutton was to get in and it was cut?

SAUL:

Rewiring the nation was $20 billion earmarked for big transmission, so to move electricity long distance across Australia. My understanding is because the transmission companies get paid to build the wires, they've already allocated the great majority of that $20 billion. It's already out the door, so I think Dutton's, it's an empty promise. I don't think he can claw it back at this point. I also understand that $1 billion of that 20 got reallocated from rewiring the nation towards the HEUF, which was the Home Energy Upgrade Fund to do household electrification and similar things. Maybe they could claw that back - that would be a bad idea, it would be politically unpopular because it's helping households do things that make their cost of living lower. So, it feels like an empty threat to me.

RUBY:

Okay. And just finally, as far as back on the idea of leadership, you know, we hear a lot about the importance of global leadership when we're talking about climate change, but what type of leadership do you think is actually likely to influence global change?

SAUL:

Well, the influence that really works is when you prove by example, that this is a better way to live. This is the point of the 2515 project, and, you know, it's pretty cool; we're oversubscribed on households who want to join. It's the, the, I, I swim in my local swimming pool every morning and there's somebody's asking me questions about this or that or the other, and it's sort of, you can see it catching on and being a sort of good idea for the community. That kind of leadership, showing that it can work, showing that it improves the economics for a community, showing it on the global stage, that helps everyone move along. Similarly, I have a friend in New Zealand, Mike Casey. He runs the world's first all electric cherry farm. He electrified his Frost fans. He bought the first two electric tractors in the Southern hemisphere, put a giant amount of solar on his barn. And because of the nature of the electricity tariffs in New Zealand, he's able to, I think he's saving 40 to $70,000 a year on his cost of energy, principally because electricity is so much cheaper than diesel to do the same thing. He's earning an extra 20 or $30,000 a year selling his excess solar electricity back into the grid. And honestly, that's a story that could be true for most Australian farmers. There's a huge opportunity in using our existing agricultural rooftops that's barns and sheds, putting solar on those, connecting those into the grid, fixing the regulatory and the electricity market rules so that the farmers get paid the same price as the other generators, and then you would have, I think you'd have a big change in the politics of electrification in the regions. So I look to the Coalition, I look to Dutton, like, there's a huge opportunity to help your people get on with this energy transition in a way that benefits them economically.

We've got a lot to boast in Australia because, you know, agricultural electrification for all but the largest combine harvesters is now a sensible lower cost way to run your farm. All-electric households; lowest way to run your household. All electric cars; cheapest cars to run. So the economics is good. It's going to improve health outcomes. These machines are cheaper and easier to maintain because they’ve got fewer moving parts, like, there's just a lot of winning to be had, and leadership is showing that winning happening in practice, helping communities.

I think with some creativity, politicians could be speaking to a whole bunch of different constituencies in Australia on how this is going to be economically and culturally and health-wise good for you.

RUBY:

Saul, thank you so much for your time.

SAUL:

Thank you very much.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today…

A Peter Dutton-led government would pilot a national register for child sex offenders, the coalition has announced.

The 12 month pilot program would allow parents to apply to police for information about “whether an individual who interacts with their children is a convicted sex offender”.

It’s part of the 750 million dollar package called Operation Safer Communities, revealed over the Easter break. The plan includes a tightening of border security and safety laws and extra funding for police. The coalition is expected to focus on issues including national security, crime and defence in the lead up to the election on May 3.

AND

Anthony Albanese has labelled Russia’s attempts for a military presence in Indonesia as "propaganda" - as Moscow’s ambassador to Indonesia said Australia has “no cards to play”.

As the Coalition continues to demand a briefing on the national security issue that has dominated the past week of the election debate, senior Labor figures have mocked the request - with Anthony Albanese saying he’s waiting for a briefing on who faked the moon landing – and Labor frontbencher Murray Watt comparing the coalition’s request to asking for a briefing on the “Loch Ness Monster”.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. Thanks for listening.

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