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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

The call for Treaty in this country stems as far back as European settlement.

Now, in Victoria for the first time, First Nations people are sitting down with the government on an equal playing field to negotiate.

It’s a nation-leading step towards justice.

But it’s under threat. After the failed Voice referendum last year, the Victorian Opposition has followed the Queensland playbook and withdrawn their support.

It casts an ominous shadow over the process, one in which First Nations people are once again being asked to act in good faith with the power structures that have oppressed so many for so long.

Today, Yorta Yorta journalist and my 7am co-host Daniel James on the promise of Victoria’s treaties.

It’s Monday November 25.

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RUBY:

Daniel, you've been working on this story as formal Treaty negotiations begin in Victoria and this moment, it's a historic moment. Can you tell me a bit about the journey to get here? Because it's been a long time, hasn't it?

DANIEL:

So the formal process of Treaty has been in place for about five years, but it stems much further than that. It stems right back as right back as far as 1835 when the Henty family first reached what is now known as Portland and settled there for the first time. The first European settlement in Victoria as we now know it. We've got to remember that Victoria was one of the most populated parts of the continent before European arrival and the place was pretty much decimated within the space of 50 years.

Things like smallpox, massacres, removal of land, poisoning of water, disruption of waterways had a significant impact on the population here. And so the formal movement really commenced in Coranderrk, which was an Aboriginal mission just outside of Melbourne, where people like William Barak organised petitions, marched and tried to represent their community for better conditions. My own people up at Maloga, Yorta Yorta, there were a series of protests, but also a letter written to, you know, governors of New South Wales and governors of Victoria just trying to get parcels of land for our own people.

Audio excerpt — News presenter:

“On Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung country. A display of the enduring connection to land and culture. It's an historic first for Australia, negotiations for a legal agreement between the state and its Indigenous people.”

Audio excerpt — First People’s Assembly of Victoria Co-Chair Ngarra Murray:

“Treaties are a bridge not just between us and the state, but between the past and the future.”

Audio excerpt — News presenter:

“Treaty seen as an opportunity for Truth Telling that Aboriginal nations…”

RUBY:

There's been a Truth Telling process as well. Hasn't there, happening alongside preparations for Treaty? So can you tell me a bit about that?

DANIEL:

Yeah, you often hear the phrase there can't be Treaty without Truth. And so in Victoria, they established the Yoorrook Justice Commission, which has the powers of a royal commission to get written testimony, call witnesses, get access to government documents, get access to archives and historical documents.

And there's been a huge array of different people provide testimony before that commission from the police commissioner who appeared before the commission and apologised to Aboriginal people for any harm done by Victoria Police since colonisation to the Henty family, who were the first family to settle in Victoria and to commit crimes against Aboriginal people all the way through to Premier Jacinta Allan.

Audio excerpt — Jacinta Allan:

“I did not know of the massacres. I'm ashamed to say I did not. I have learnt about the size and scale of the murders and the massacres.”

DANIEL:

Who appeared earlier this year and was very frank and very open about her lack of knowledge of what happened here.

Audio excerpt — Jacinta Allan:

“And it brings me a sense of shame and distress that this was done. This was done by people taking, all in the pursuit of taking land off First Peoples.”

DANIEL:

So that Yoorrook Justice Commission feeds into the Treaty process, but will also have on the record forevermore what happened here, and that will be hopefully available in schools and any part of society that wants to learn about what happened here. We now have a record about what happened here.

RUBY:

Okay. So a lot of work, a lot of determination to get to this point. The First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria have played a crucial role as well. Can you tell me a bit about them and what the Assembly has achieved?

DANIEL:

The First People's Assembly of Victoria is a body that represents traditional owner groups; they represent Aboriginal people from different backgrounds from around the country that happen to be residing in Victoria now. They were established about five years ago and all this stems back to the Andrews Government coming into power around 2014. And when Daniel Andrews said, “yep, all right, let's do a Treaty”, it took us aback a little bit, but there's been a tremendous amount of effort and work to get these formal structures in place and to make sure that when we hit the point of negotiating treaties, which started last week, that it's an even playing field.

So obviously, the Crown is going to have a tremendous amount of access to lawyers and other legal agents. The same will be available to the First People's Assembly.

So there are 33 members to the Assembly. There are two co-chairpersons, Rueben Berg and Ngarra Murray, and I've spoken to them recently about the way forward.

Audio excerpt — Rueben Berg:

“So we've got myself and Ngarra as the co-chairs. And then we've also got Nerita Waight and Indi Clarke and Troy McDonald. So we're kind of spearheading things, but all decisions come back to the whole chamber. It’s all 33 of us that are involved in the decision making.”

Audio excerpt — Daniel:

“You can't have 33 people in the room negotiating.”

Audio excerpt — Rueben Berg:

“That would be problematic. And the state has their team. We expect the Premier will be involved in the discussions as appropriate as well as Minister Hutchins. And then there's a bunch of public servants that sit alongside them.

“We'll bring to the table what we've heard are the aspirations and it's a negotiation. You have to sit down and have the discussion, which is really about implementing self-determination. If there are key decisions about First Peoples that need to be made from a government lens, it shouldn't necessarily be a minister who makes those decisions. It should be elected representatives of First Peoples making those decisions. So that's at the very high level.

“If you look at some of those kinds of more practical outcomes, one idea we've heard really strongly is around how do we make sure we're supporting our elders? If you look at something like the seniors card, which for the broader community you have to be 60 to access that. Well, we only have limited access to that if we have shorter life expectancy. So we should have access to that earlier. Our elders should be able to access that earlier.”

DANIEL:

It's actually really a weird sort of paradigm because it's not a place that Aboriginal people, particularly here in Victoria, are used to having. We're not used to being able to have access to that sort of power and that's what Treaty is all about.

RUBY:

After the break, the forces trying to tear treaties apart.

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RUBY:

Daniel, like other conservative parties across the country, most notably in Queensland, the Victorian state Opposition have said that they will now not support a Treaty. So how are the first Peoples’ Assembly dealing with that as they enter into these negotiations?

DANIEL:

They are saddened by the Victorian Opposition here, walking away from it. There was bipartisan support for a Treaty for a long time here, but on the back of the referendum it seems that the Liberal National Parties think that there's some sort of semblance of political capital to be gained by this. But for the Assembly themselves, they are hoping to include and speak to all members of Parliament, including the Opposition, as they move forward.

When I spoke to the co-chairs last week, Ngarra Murray was also very honest and cognisant of the fact that this is something that is hanging over the Assembly's head.

Audio excerpt — Ngarra Murray:

“I feel saddened when I look afar to see what's happening in Queensland, for example, and even with our Maori brothers and sisters and seeing what's happening there today, you know, within their parliament. But I think we're in a really strong position to commence Treaty negotiations. But that's always in our mind I think, because we're often used as a political football. We’re often politicised.”

RUBY:

Okay, but what is the risk here if we look ahead to the next Victorian election? I mean, is there a chance that things could fall apart and all of this work that has been done in good faith could be in vain?

DANIEL:

Yes, Unfortunately, it means that essentially that for people who care about this, the next state election becomes another referendum on our Treaty and Truth Telling in Victoria. So they're not only walking away from the process, the Liberal National Party, they're actually going to use it as a point of difference as they move into the next election. And so with the backing of the Herald Sun and Sky News, which broadcasts across regional Victoria, the scare campaign against Treaty will lift the profile of nationals across the state in particular. And if it's anything like the referendum debate, it's going to be toxic and ugly. More than that, people will get hurt, very hurt by this. Those who lived through the referendum know how painful it could be.

And we need to also remember by the time of the next election, the Labor government here would have been in power for 12 years. And so Australian political history tells us that that's reaching the limit of ten years for governments in this country. And so there are a number of things stacked against Treaty. There is the political opposition to it, but there's also the political reality of what happens to governments who have been around that long. And that means that while negotiations will continue over the next two years, what happens beyond the next election depending who wins, it is unknown.

RUBY:

Okay, so there's a real chance of a change in government, which would have a definitive impact on what happens to the Treaty negotiations going forward. But I want to talk a little bit more about what you said around the debate, the sort of the toxic debate that we saw in the lead up to the vote on a Voice to Parliament federally. If we see something similar to that in Victoria in the lead up to the next election, what is the impact of that likely to be on relations between First Nations people in Victoria and the people who represent them?

DANIEL:

Well, I lived through the Mabo debate and the scare campaign related to that. And then of course we all lived through the referendum debate last year, which was kind of like Mabo on steroids in terms of the tone of conversations about Aboriginal people, largely not to or with Aboriginal people. If the referendum result didn't destroy the idea of reconciliation in Victoria, then the closing down of the Truth and Treaty process will. People have come forward to share their stories, many of them very, very painful stories. They've shared their experiences with the same authorities that may have caused them harm in the first place. And the fact that they've done that shows how deeply these people care and are committed to this process. So to scrap all of it, to scrap a potential new way forward, would break a lot of hearts and do irreparable damage to reconciliation here and I would argue around the country as well. And that means that all the good faith that First Nations people have put into this process will have been lost.

If this was to be successful in Victoria, it would be the first time that there has been true self determination by, with and for Aboriginal people and anywhere in the country. An elected body that will oversee things that have that impact us, impact First Nations people in Victoria.

If that doesn't work, then it gives all the cynics and all the people that are sceptical about self-determination the excuse that they need never to go there again. And I would argue that it would make having a national Treaty almost impossible in most of our lifetimes.

It would just feed into the narrative that we've had around the Voice that First Nations people are just Australians like everyone else and they don't deserve anything beyond what the rest of the country are given, despite what has happened to them in the name of the Crown.

RUBY:

Precarious times ahead, Daniel.

DANIEL:

Bit nerve wracking.

RUBY:

Thank you so much for your time today.

DANIEL:

Thanks, Ruby.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today

The five remaining Bali Nine prisoners in Indonesia will be transferred to Australia within months.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese asked Indonesia’s new president Prabowo Subianto to transfer the convicted drug traffickers to Australia, when he met with him on the sidelines of the APEC conference in Peru.

Two of the Bali Nine, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, were executed by firing squad in 2015 in Indonesia after multiple attempts to save their lives were rejected. Another member died in prison and one has already been brought back to Australia.

Cabinet minister Don Farrell says the remaining prisoners will continue to serve their life sentences on return to Australia.

And

Laws to force social media companies to deal with misinformation on their platform have been scrapped by the government, the communications minister Michelle Rowland has confirmed.

The government failed to get support for the bill from the Coalition, Greens and several crossbench senators.

Ms Rowland said the bill would have dealt with “harmful content” but the coalition described it as an attempt to “censor” speech.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. See you tomorrow.

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